[POD] 200. 5:27:25 - People pleasing FINAL AUDIO
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[00:00:00] Welcome back to the podcast. I have a special guest today with me and we are talking all about people pleasing. My guest, Michelle talks about learning how to set boundaries. If you are a struggling people pleaser, if you say yes more often than you want to, and we also dive into maybe if you don't struggle with.
That I didn't think I did, and I discovered some places that I actually might be a people pleaser. So it's a really good conversation. I'm excited for you to listen to it. Michelle also has her own podcast called The Overwhelmed Working Woman. If you want more support in that area and and want to learn how to create those boundaries, it's a really great, great podcast as well.
So thank you for being here and I'm excited for you to have this. Episode, welcome to the Woman of Wellness Podcast, a show dedicated to empowering you to make peace with food, embrace your body, and enjoy the journey to lasting health and wellness. I'm your host, [00:01:00] Elizabeth Dahl, a certified exercise.
Physiologist and women's nutrition and behavior coach passionate about helping you build sustainable habits, achieve your goals, and create a lifetime of health without dieting or restriction. And because women's health is such a multifaceted journey alongside sharing my expertise, I'm bringing you conversation.
With leading women's health experts to explore the many dimensions of wellness from nutrition and weight loss to mental health, hormones and self-care, we'll uncover the tools and strategies you need to create a life of health and balance. To the woman who's tired of the dieting rollercoaster, who feels disconnected from her body or overwhelmed by food and fitness rules, this is your invitation to make a change to the woman who's ready to achieve.
Food freedom, lose weight in a way that feels good and discover the true meaning of health. You are in the right place. It's time to ditch the guilt and shame of diet, culture, and embrace a new path to [00:02:00] wellness. My friend, you are already a woman of wellness. Your worth is not defined by a number on the scale.
You deserve to show up in love for your body today and every day. Join me each week for inspiring conversations, expert insights and practical strategies to help you discover what your body truly needs. It's time to reject the lie that help and weight loss have to be hard, painful, or miserable. I'm ready to link arms with you and experience the joy of wellness together.
Hello podcast friends. I am so excited. Um, I have an exciting guest for us today. We're gonna be talking all about people pleasing, and as we were talking a little bit before this conversation, I, um, was telling our guest that I. I don't struggle with people pleasing, but then as we were talking a little bit more, I wondered if I might, so I'm really excited for this, this conversation for everyone that either maybe feels like, you know, people [00:03:00] pleasing is a struggle setting, boundaries, that kind of thing.
Um, or if you're like, Hey, maybe I don't feel like I. I have that problem. We might discover some things. So I'm actually really looking forward to this. I've got Michelle Gauthier with us, um, today. Welcome, Michelle. Will you just tell us a little bit more about you and your story to becoming this expert in this area?
Yes, sure. I think like most, um, coaches, I, I was my own best client like seven years ago. I was totally overwhelmed and I kind of had everything I thought I ever wanted in life. If I had made a vision board for what I wanted my life to look like, it did look like that. But I felt like I wasn't really happy because I wasn't able to be present anywhere.
Like I had this. Big job where I traveled a lot and I had a ton of responsibility and I worked lots of hours. I really, really wanted kids and I struggled to have kids for like seven years. And so we ended up adopting and we adopted two kids. So I [00:04:00] had these two kids and the husband and the house, and I worked out all the time.
I'd go running at five in the morning, so I was checking every box, but somehow it just didn't feel good. And what I discovered was that. It didn't feel good 'cause I was just overwhelmed and not present, and it felt like I wasn't really living my life. I was just checking all the boxes. So in order for me to slow down and figure out what I really wanted to do and how I really wanted to live my life, I.
First of all, the funny part is I decided I was gonna become a life coach. That was gonna be my solution. So I started doing this training to become a life coach. I trained with Martha Beck and I realized I need a life coach. I don't need to be a life coach yet. I need a life coach. So it was kind of funny that I was.
Thought I was signing up to help other people, but I was signing up to help myself. So as I worked through it, I realized that one of the things that was really stopping me is that the reason why I was working so hard and still like the room mom and volunteering at my church and doing a million things is [00:05:00] because I.
I really wanted other people to think about me as, oh, she's so successful. She's so reliable, she can do anything. And I would say yes to things in order to try to please other people instead of myself. And then I wanted to just do everything with my kids. Like I mentioned, I wanted them so badly, and so I didn't wanna say.
I cannot be at their school at noon on a Tuesday. I have to work at noon on a Tuesday. So instead, I would majorly stress myself out by trying to like block my calendar and render their school and come back. So I was really unable to think what do I want and what would be best for me? Instead, I was thinking, what does everybody else want?
Yeah, that's super interesting there. Let's actually start here. How would you define people pleasing? Like, let's, let's, let's big picture here. What are we talking about? Yeah. I would say that people [00:06:00] pleasing is anytime that you're doing something that someone else has asked you to do or wants you to do to the detriment of yourself.
So it's maybe against what you would really wanna do, or it's something that is gonna take away from, you know, time that you wanna have at home, but you say yes even when you wanna say no. Okay. That's so interesting. How do we balance, ooh, what is this question? How do we balance, you know, wanting to show up for people, right?
Mm-hmm. And, and serve and give, um, because I think. There's a lot of things that I probably do that I wouldn't necessarily say I want to do. For example, let's just, let's just jump into the examples. I got a, a message from my child's teacher today about a field trip, and they're looking for chaperones on the field trip, and honestly, in the past, I.
I, I would've said yes immediately. Like, yeah, I wanna, I wanna support my son, I [00:07:00] wanna be there for him. Do I really wanna go on the field trip? No. Like that, that, no, but it was more of a connection of like, I, I guess I wanted my son to, to know that, like I supported that. Um, how does that. Fit into like, yeah, it's not something I would choose, but is it also okay to do it for him?
Does that, is that traditional people pleasing or is that something different? Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, it was like I asked you to lead in with that example. That's a perfect example because it's not a clear cut. I definitely don't wanna do this. There's like, part of me does and part of me doesn't.
So this is the, the method that I teach to figure out if you wanna say yes or no, something that can yes or no to something that can give you an awareness of if you're people pleasing or if you're doing what really feels best for you. And the first question to ask, it's called the Love and Fit test. So the first question to ask is, do I love this idea?
So it sounds [00:08:00] like. You don't necessarily love the idea of going on this particular field trip. Uh, not nothing to do with your son and how much you love him, but just that particular thing. And then the second question is, does this fit? And a lot of times people think that means, does it fit on my calendar?
Like, does there a space on my calendar? But what I really mean is, does it fit into the type of life that I'm trying to create? So for example, for me, I'm always, my answer for does it fit, has to do with if it makes my life feel overwhelming or if it helps me feel balanced. So I always want to feel balanced.
So if, if you were to tell me kind of what kind of life you're trying to create, what would it be? Are you trying to create a life where you feel like you have balance or where you're available to your kids or where you focus on your business during the day? Like what would the fit question be for you?
That's a good question. Kind of the idea of like, yeah, [00:09:00] what, what feels like balance versus maybe Forced. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so if, let's say that your, your idea is to create balance. Does this particular thing fit in with a balanced life? Right now? It's just a one time, you know, one field trip decision.
Yeah. Do we. People please. Certain people more than others. So we talked a little bit about, um, the, I don't, I don't feel like I've ever really struggled with people pleasing. Yeah. Um, but it's interesting 'cause, you know, as you're talking about this, I'm like, gosh, I think I do it with my kids more than anyone else.
I, I don't, I don't care so much about what everyone else thinks of me. I'm like living my life. But there's something where it's like, I don't wanna mess up with my kids. And maybe it infuses their, do, do people struggle like. Go into that a little bit. Yes, absolutely. Because if there's someone, I mean, [00:10:00] essentially what we're trying to do when we, people please, and then I'll answer the kid question.
Question specifically, is we're really trying to control how someone else feels about us. For example, if my daughter, my, I have one of my kids is extremely persistent, and if she wants something, she's 14, so I'm not talking about a toddler. So like she wants something, she's like a dog with a bone. She will just keep asking for it.
And so sometimes. I wanna say yes just to get her to stop asking me. And I'm trying to make it so that she's in a good mood. Instead of that she is in a bad mood. And so I'm not saying, I'm not asking myself. Like for example, she just said she wanted to sign up for golf. And I was like, yeah, great, that sounds fun.
Go ahead and you can sign up for golf. But then she wanted new clubs and new shoes and lessons and to go play every day. And you know, she's very determined and so. If I really gave myself the love and fit test, I love the idea of her playing golf, but it [00:11:00] doesn't fit into the kind of life I'm trying to create to all of a sudden, 'cause she changes her mind on what sport she wants to do, that I have to drop everything and spend my whole evening researching golf clubs and taking her immediately to the golf store and dropping whoever who knows how many hundreds of dollars.
But it will be much easier for me if she's in a good mood and she got the things she wanted. Yeah, so it's not a, it was not a fit in the type of life that I was trying to create. And so when it's a mismatch of like, yes, I love this idea, but no, it's not a fit or, no, I don't like this idea, but yes, it's a fit.
Then you have to investigate a little bit and say, in this one time situation, what should my answer be? And in this particular one, I was like, no, let's play a little bit. Play, see if you like it. Maybe take a few lessons and then we'll decide if we're gonna go get the new golf clubs. And maybe your answer about the field trip is like, okay, I will go on one field trip a year for each child, and then you can just decide like, is this the one?
You know, you can think about it that way, but yes, it's totally [00:12:00] normal to people. Please our kids. And I think, how old are yours? I know you said you have like a 15 month old and then a 6-year-old and a 9-year-old. Okay. Okay. So yeah. And, and do you find yourself doing, like, how do you see that you might be people pleasing them?
What are you trying to prevent or how are you trying to make them feel when you people please them? I don't know. I guess I sometimes want, I think there's a little bit of nudge of wanting. To make it equal in some way. Like I make sure that this, this kid has me as a room mom, and this kid has me as a room, like volunteering.
Yeah. My daughter is a little, sounds a little bit like yours where she'll be like, well, you went to his class or you did this. Yeah. You know? And so there's probably a little bit of a pull too from people. Like maybe we could talk about expectations. Yeah. Like people pleasing probably comes from a level of expectation that people have.
Yes. Yes, exactly. And then we can, you know, their expectations and what they [00:13:00] want from us is totally out of our control. So we can kind of turn that on its head and have expectations about them. So for example, if my son were, were to ask me for like. A new set of golf clubs and I said, no, my expectation is that he'd be like, oh dang.
Okay mom. And my expectation about my daughter can be that she's gonna ask me 25 more times. And that if I just expect, expect that and know that it helps me to be less frustrated when it happens. Yeah. Okay. I think the other thing, to your point, because I feel like moms of multiple kids are always trying to make sure that we're giving each one what they need, and I think asking yourself the question, do I feel like I'm doing a good job?
You know, some kids need. More in certain areas and less and other, and the other one might be opposite. And it's a big job in our minds to keep track of all that stuff. So do you feel like, in general, do you feel good about how you're [00:14:00] balancing and giving attention to each of your kids right now in this season?
That they're all in? No. Okay. And what, like, can you tell me more about it? Can I help you think through it? Yeah. You know, it's just interesting 'cause like you said, they all have different needs and a toddler has high needs and a 9-year-old for me has less needs. And trying to learn how to, how to give love to a 9-year-old and attention to a 9-year-old and love and attention to a toddler are two very different things.
And I think it's about coming to peace, like you mentioned the. Fit. Right. The love. The fit, where it's like, I've gotta come to peace with this is what this one needs and this is what this one needs. And that's good enough, right? Yes. I don't have to do extras. Yes, exactly. And there's really, there's no way to really measure the balance, and there's really no way to nail it across the board.
I feel like it's an everyday wake up and be like, how can I be most balanced [00:15:00] today? And maybe there are days where the baby gets like. All of your attention, and maybe there are times where the 9-year-old does or the 7-year-old does, but it's just like an ongoing, you know, how can I manage this today?
Yeah. So this might be a weird question, but is people pleasing an identity or a situation? I think it's a habit. Okay. I think it's a habit that we get into and I think you, you're blessed not to have this habit, by the way. I don't know how you skipped out on this habit, but good job, however that happened for you.
I think it happens a lot for women because we're really taught from an early age that our, there's a lot of value in us caring for other people. And so when you put your enoughness and your value. In taking care of other people, making other people feel good. It just sort of naturally develops people pleasing.
So for example, if you have a group of friends and they're all going out to do something and they ask you, you [00:16:00] know, do you wanna come? And you really don't wanna come, it sounds like you have the ability to be like, no, that doesn't work for me. I'm, I'm not gonna do it. Most people who, and all the people who I work with are like, oh, I don't wanna go, but I'm afraid they're gonna be upset with me.
And I, it's. We have programmed into our mind that the most important thing is that other people are happy with me, not that I'm happy with me. So I think it's just a habit and a thought that we have thought a lot of times, even if it's unconscious, like I need to make other people happy, for example. It becomes a belief and then it just becomes this unconscious habit that we have.
I see you have two habit books behind you so I can, I can tell you're a habit person. So that's how I like to think about it because I think we can always form new habits. We can drop old habits, we can form new habits. It's totally possible to change if you feel like you do have that people pleasing habit.
Yeah. Um, and maybe to help people identify, you know, maybe people are, you know, with the women listening or saying, oh yeah, I totally have that. But there might be some that are kind of like, [00:17:00] okay, is this a how, like where do I fit in this? Um, and I always like to think about root cause. Um, do you see with your clients like.
Where does it come from? Like how do they develop this habit? Ha. Are there some, some consistencies that you see among people with that struggle? With people pleasing? Yes. Yes. And I think, and almost always starts, well, I think every, all the habits we have that we don't investigate start when we're kids. I think when I.
Even think about myself when I can remember being in like first grade and that my teacher, she was proud of me, that I was a good reader and she used to give me a lot of praise for that. And then she told my mom at parent-teacher conferences that I was a really nice kid. And so I got good feedback from my teacher and my parents for doing that.
My parents weren't like, okay, you have to do this. You have to put other people's first. They didn't tell me that. It's not like it was something [00:18:00] intentional, but. I took it to mean. I will get good feedback and people translated it to, people will love me if I am agreeable and you know, willing to do nice things for other people.
And to me tying into that is like getting good grades and being successful in school. So I think we just get the message from our family of what we are valued for. Then we wanna do more of that 'cause we're humans and we like that. We like to get the good feedback. And so it can be really hard to break that habit and think about, for example, I really liked school and I liked getting good grades, so it's not like I was doing it against my own will, but I just never had the the thought of do I have to try to make other people happy?
Do I have to be seen in the classroom as like the easy compliant kid? Yeah. Um. So it, it really stems from, from that feedback, right? Like yeah. Something that [00:19:00] you were taught and then you kind of create from there. So let's kind of transition into how does people pleasing show up in health specifically and Yeah.
In women's health. Yeah. I think that's a, a great question. So I think. If you're people pleasing or you just have that tendency to people, please. An example could be, I try to eat really healthy, as an example. I'm in. Harry menopause. I've gotta be really specific about what I eat. If I wanna feel good, all of a sudden I can't eat dairy and all, I shouldn't say that.
I choose not to eat dairy 'cause it makes me feel really bad. So if I go to my parents' house and they're serving ice cream cake at for dessert and they ask me if I want it, I, I know I don't want it. I don't love it, and it doesn't fit into the type of life that I'm trying to create, but I still want to do that.
I still want to eat it in order to make my mom happy. Now, who knows if my mom's actually gonna be happy if I eat it [00:20:00] or not, you know? But something like that where I would eat ice cream, that's gonna give me an upset stomach in order to make my mom happy versus just saying. I don't wanna eat that. It doesn't feel good in my stomach.
Or even just not giving an example, like a reason, just saying, no, thanks. I'm gonna pass. Yeah. I also think societally speaking, women have a lot of, I don't know, having a 14-year-old now, I feel like girls now are better than they were when I was growing up. But I think there are a lot of expectations about like what we wear, how our bodies look.
There's kind of that standard, I feel like it's much like a wider span than it used to be that, you know, you can be muscular or you can be whatever. But I think, um, a lot of the reasons. For example, if you were to have a client who was like, I just don't like the way that I look, why? Like, what have we been told about how we're supposed to look and what we're supposed to wear?[00:21:00]
Yeah. As you were kind of talking, I was writing down other words for people pleasing. It could be like society pleasing Yeah. Or pleasing to the norm. Right? Yeah. We're like trying to conform to that and, and that might be a, a good like. Way to look at it is like, okay, am I trying to conform to the norm?
Yeah, yeah. Or am I trying to um, please a whole. Yeah. Yeah. And you just did a great episode about accepting your body. I think it was maybe one of your newest ones, but accepting your body where it is right now. And as I was going through that, because I feel like I look a lot different and I feel a lot different than I previously have right now.
And as I was going through it and thinking for myself, like, why? What do I not want other people to think about me? What am I trying to control about that? I don't want them to say, oh my gosh, she used to be so much more fit, or she used to have more [00:22:00] muscles, or, she used to be a marathon runner. First of all, let's not flatter ourselves.
Other people are probably not thinking about us nearly as much as they are, but let's just say they did think that. Like if someone thought, oh, Michelle doesn't look like she used to. She's, you know, not as fit as she used to be. So what. What if someone does think that, is that reason enough for me to try to like restrict or change my body because I'm worried about someone else?
Might. What? Might think instead? I wanna think about myself, like how do I feel about my own body right now and what do I wanna change and how comfortable do I feel in the body that I'm in now? Which was the whole point of your episode, and I really liked that. How do we combat those feelings of selfishness then?
Because as women specifically, we are probably programmed to not be selfish. Um, and maybe that's a bad word, but I think it's a word that we're thinking of. Like if I put myself first or if I do these things, or if I say no to something that my kid would love me for, whatever. [00:23:00] That's being selfish. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think even to use the word selfish is fair and. What if we are selfish? And what if we model that in terms of taking care of ourselves? So if you're a mom who feels like you're always putting your child first. What I think about is what do I wanna model to my kids? Do I wanna model to my kids that their every need is the only thing I care about or do I wanna model to them?
Like, oh, get you guys. We're gonna have like cereal and pancakes for dinner tonight because I'm gonna go. To this workout class 'cause I didn't get a chance to work out today and I really wanna do it. You can't do that with your kids 'cause they're younger. But I'm sure there are other examples where sometimes if you wanna go on a walk and you know they'd be happier if you stayed there, but someone's there with them and you can be like, I'm going for a walk and I'm going by myself.
I'm, they're probably like, can I come with you? And you just do it for yourself. I think it's just good to remind ourselves of what we're [00:24:00] modeling and that most of the time. Doing something for yourself as a mom makes you a better mom. It gives you energy to take care of other people. Yeah. How do you create those boundaries when your mind is like in dissonance, right?
Yeah. We've got the mind going, oh, I should, should, should, should. Yes. But I wanna create these boundaries. What are some starting steps or how do we get started? The first and most important thing is just to realize that you're doing it. So if you feel yourself. About to say yes when you want to say no, and then you say yes, and you go through and you do the thing.
It's totally okay because you've at least noticed, okay, I wanted, I had that dissonance, like I wanted to say no, but instead I said yes. And then just work on practicing thinking those new thoughts. So a thought that might. Keep me from doing something like that is I can't be selfish. I have to [00:25:00] give all my time to my kids in the evening 'cause I worked all day instead practicing other thoughts like.
I'm the best mom when I'm the best me, and sometimes I need a break or sometimes I need to go for a walk or whatever it is. So work on switching those behind the scenes, often unconscious beliefs is a good way to do it. And then knowing that. Saying no or saying I'm gonna go for a walk, even though it makes other people unhappy, will always feel uncomfortable.
Sometimes we think, well, I, I'll, I'll hopefully get more comfortable with it and then I'll do it. Just know it's gonna feel a little bit uncomfortable, especially at first, and do it anyway and then see how it feels. Yeah. I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit. Can you think of a particular client that, a good story of like, okay, someone they were struggling with, all these kind of things we were talking about.
I'm just, I'm just trying to visualize anyone that's listening, like, okay, I'm struggling, you know, putting other people before me. I'm struggling saying, no, I'm [00:26:00] struggling setting boundaries and so my needs aren't getting met. Right? So they're in this space of like, my needs aren't getting met. And there's some resentment that comes in.
You know, I don't, I don't, huh? Why am I saying yes to this? But I feel like I have to. Will you share, would you be willing to share a story? Yeah, sure, sure. Yes. I have so many, I've got a brain full of stories like that. I can think of one particular client who, the, the area where she said. Yes, so to speak, a lot was being constantly available to her team at work.
So she was on instant messenger all day and she had a rule for herself when when I investigated, I was like, is this a policy? Do you have to respond in a certain amount of time? But she just had a rule for her, herself that she needed to respond immediately when people asked her questions. What that meant was she could never actually get focused on anything.
'cause she was constantly getting these questions and then when she wasn't working, she would check her work email or sign into Messenger on her phone. So she was basically on call, [00:27:00] always available to her team. And the reason she was doing that is she didn't want them to feel disappointed in her or them to have to try to figure something out without her.
So. As we worked through what that was causing in her life, even though that was a work problem, so to speak, she found herself being really short with her kids and annoyed with her husband because they're trying to talk to her in the evening and hang around with her, and she's trying to check on her phone and get back to people.
So it created a really stressful situation. So we made new rules and boundaries for her where she was. She had like a, a. Amount, amount of time that she felt okay to not respond to someone. And we worked it up to like an hour, and that meant that she could have working time where she could set her phone face down, and then put herself on do not disturb, meaning she didn't get the notifications.
People were still sending her messages, but she didn't get the notifications. Then at night just decided that she would try. It took us a little while to like taper down, but to try [00:28:00] and then eventually just not check her work email or instant messenger at night. It wasn't the kind, it wasn't like a 24 hour job she could do this.
So in doing that, the improvements she saw were not only at work because we teach people how to treat us. So if, if people know you're gonna get back to them in 10 seconds, that that's what they start to expect. If sometimes it takes a while. That's what they start to expect. It's fine. They know that she'll get back to them eventually.
And then she saw a really big difference with her kids because once she was done with work, she could just be finished with work until the next morning. So I think people pleasing, even in one area of life, usually affects all the rest of the areas of life as well. Absolutely. Do you have, I was just kind of thinking, okay, someone listening is like, okay, I'm, I'm trying to get into this space.
Maybe we're all in a different place of like, I'm worthy of being taken care of first and, and putting myself first. I think everyone's in a little different space. Space there, but we have kind of come to [00:29:00] the conclusion that even if you don't believe it, you are, you are worthy of taking care of yourself first because it helps you show up, um, in a better way.
You're worthy of setting those boundaries. Do you have a particular framework or step by step that you help? Um, people set boundaries and expectations. I do. Yes. So there's really three steps to setting a boundary, and the first one is to think about what the rule is. So what's the boundary that you're gonna set?
A lot of times we'll think, let's use that example that I was just giving with my client. So she set a boundary that she's gonna get back to people in up to an hour. So what she. Is clear on is the rule that she wants to set, and then she has to think about what is going to happen when someone breaks that boundary or expects me to get back to them more quickly.
And then who does she need to tell about the boundary? So the boundaries she made was, I'll get back to people within an hour and I won't get back to [00:30:00] people after like. Five or 6:00 PM whatever time she decided. And if people break that rule. So she's not gonna say, Hey team, don't email me past 6:00 PM She'll say, I'm not going to answer emails after 6:00 PM You can leave me a message and I'll get back to you in the morning.
So then if someone sends her a message at seven. It's up to her to hold that boundary, even if she sees that message, to not respond back to it. So the boundary is a rule that we make and we are also the upholder of that rule. So we have to be the one we can't ever expect anyone else to change their behavior.
We have to change ours and then we have to hold tight with it. And then it's always important to think how to communicate that boundary. So if she had just stopped responding in the evening, people would've picked up eventually that she wasn't gonna answer messages at night, but she decided it was better if she communicated it to her team.
Like, I have been available in these hours. I'm not gonna be available, but I will get back to you the next morning before x time. That's an [00:31:00] example of setting the boundary. I think the biggest thing is that people are willing to make the rule in their mind, but holding the boundary can really be the hard part.
Yeah, because it, it's almost like, you know, you have someone that is trying to push that boundary and then you it, you have to hold that identity because if you have the identity of a people pleaser. It almost feels like that that barrier just gets kicked down a little bit at a time. I, I'm just thinking about my daughter, who, like, I try to set so many boundaries with, and she's like your daughter, where it's just like constantly trying to get her way and the questions and the questions and like, she'll just ask until I give it to her basically, you know?
Yes. Yeah. And so like learning how to. Set those boundaries and then hold to them. And what you mentioned was that people will learn. And I mean luckily, hopefully adults are a little bit better at this, but I don't know, [00:32:00] like they might learn like, okay, she's actually not gonna get back to me. Um, and it might take some time.
Yeah. And so will our kids, like my kids imitate me now because they're like semi grown up kids, but they're like, yeah, mom, what? Always say? I said, no, I meant no, and I'm not gonna change my mind. When I said that, it was like, don't ask me again. But then they start to listen and so when I said that, which they still make fun of me for, but when I said that they knew like.
Stop talking about this, this isn't gonna happen anymore. And when you sit through the pain and don't answer that email at seven or eight o'clock, even if it's just a quick yes, you know, but you, you just know I'm not gonna answer that email, then you start teaching other people. How to expect your behavior, and I think as we go on and continue to practice that it gets easier and easier.
But at first, the people who are affected by our new rules and boundaries don't like it. They have been, you know, [00:33:00] for them it's beneficial. Like it, let's say your daughter, she's probably not consciously thinking this, but she's like, well, if I keep asking, hopefully, eventually she'll just say yes. So then when you start sticking really hard to the no, she's like, I don't like this at all.
And she might double down on asking a million times. So the people who. Benefit from us not having that boundary, like at the least when we have the boundary, but it's okay. It's usually just discomfort that we have to sit through of someone being unhappy with us, which it's a hard feeling. I care about it much less now than I used to, but it can be a little uncomfortable and hard.
Yeah. As you were talking, I was just thinking about, um, a couple clients that I've worked with who. Have, you know, sisters and there has been a lot of like body image talk and diet talk and what are you doing? Yes. And, and all of this. And you know, as her weight, as their weight like would fluctuate sometimes.
And then people would ask more questions and it got to a point where they were like. I just, I don't wanna talk about it. I [00:34:00] don't wanna talk about my body. I don't wanna talk about what I'm doing. I don't care what you're doing. And we really had to set that boundary of, you know, we can be sisters and friends, but this is one conversation I am not willing to have.
If you guys wanna have it without me. And, and you know, some of them. I was just, I was just thinking of a couple where they, they were like, I removed myself from that particular text chain or, you know, at, at the dinner table when they constantly started talking about the diet or whatever. It was just like, Hey, let's not have this conversation here and set that boundary.
Um, I don't know. That just came to my mind. That's, that's a perfect example of a boundary though, because when it's something like that, like. One of my clients had, her grandmother said something to her, to my client's daughter about eating m and ms, and said, you gotta st. Stop eating all those m and ms or you're gonna get fat.
She said to her, and my client about died, and she's like, that's how they talk in that generation. But I don't want that kind of talk in front of my [00:35:00] daughter. I feel the same way. I would have a heart attack about that. But she had to say to her, you can't talk like that in front of my daughter. But she can't really control.
What the other person says. So she has to do exactly what your client was saying, which is just remove themselves from that situation. Say, you know, we don't, we don't think about it that way, or we don't talk about it like that, and then leave the situation or the text conversation because that is what's in her control.
Yeah, I love that. Well, this has really been a good conversation. I think it's, it's highlighted maybe all the different. Um, areas of people pleasing. Yeah. And, and maybe where we struggle. And it's kind of helped me identify some areas where maybe I would've said, I don't, I don't struggle with that. Where it's like, oh, actually I probably do in some areas.
And so I love that you mentioned it's a habit more than identity. I don't identify as a people pleaser. Some people might have the identity really strong, and some people might be like, oh. Maybe that's a little bit of a habit I have in these particular areas that I need to [00:36:00] work on. So thank you for, um, sharing that with us.
Do you have any, um, last thoughts? Anyone parting words? I guess? Yeah. I would say for anybody who does identify with anything I've said, I feel like it's a fine blurry line between people pleasing and setting boundaries and saying no and all of those things. So if you feel like someone who's really struggling with that.
Just remember that even noticing that you're doing it is a win and that you can take just tiny steps and you know, say no when it feels kind of easy and work up to harder situations. Because to say I'm a total people pleaser and I wanna just stop being a people pleaser, it's too far. It's like saying, I don't work out at all now and I wanna start working out seven days a week.
You know, it's too much. So just take little baby steps in the direction of. Creating that life that you love by learning to say no or set a boundary or stop people pleasing. Awesome. Well, thank you. And if people are [00:37:00] like, I need more help with this, where can they find you? Yes. My podcast is called Overwhelmed Working Woman and Podcast.
There are many, many episodes on my podcast about people pleasing, setting boundaries, how to say no. So if you need more information, that is the first place to go. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Okay, my friend, if you love the Woman of Wellness podcast, did you know that one of the biggest ways you can say thank you is by hitting that subscribe button and leaving a review?
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